'It was basically like walking a tightrope'

Peter Murimi on filming the semi-nomadic pastoralists: 'It takes patience but also understanding this is the way of life'

With The Battle For Laikipia, documentarians Daphne Matziaraki and Peter Murimi carefully navigate the frictions between the indigenous, semi-nomadic pastoralists, who use the area of Kenya for grazing, and white owners of ranches and wildlife conservancies. The latter are a product of the colonial era, which brings its own tensions that have been exacerbated by climate change and drought. The Greek director and her Kenyan counterpart followed the story for several years from 2017, observing the conflict in the present while setting it within the context of the past. The film, which premiered at Sundance, will be released in UK cinemas by metfilm this Friday and we caught up with them to chat about the difficulties and importance of maintaining balance and shooting on the hoof and the advantages of working together.

I know that you lived in Kenya some years ago, Daphne, so can you tell me how you first became aware of this situation in Laikipia?

Daphne Matziaraki: Yeah. I am Greek and Peter is Kenyan. I lived in Kenya 20 years ago, working for the United Nations Environment Program. And I became aware of the challenges and changing climate of the relationships that exist in Laikipia. In 2017, when there was a big drought, conflict had erupted and one of our main characters Maria Dodds was keeping an online blog. I thought it could be a very good way to tell a very big and complex story.

How did the two of you come to partner up on the project, because you have both worked separately before.

Daphne Matziaraki on working with Peter Murimi: 'I feel that we just kept each other checked and balanced and sane' Photo: Courtesy of Sundance Institute

Peter Murimi: So the connecting factor here is Daphne met Roger Ross Williams when both of them were nominated for Oscars, and Daphne had told Roger about this film. I had worked with Roger before, because he was the executive producer for my first film I Am Samuel. Toni Kamau was also a producer for that film. So Roger said to Daphne she should get in touch with Tony, which she did, and they started that journey together. And then eventually, they were talking to me while I was still working on I Am Samuel and eventually convinced me to come and help. It is such a complex story and I was happy to contribute and partner with Daphne to try to get this film across the line. Not just to finish it but to finish it with the approach we took, which is really balanced. And I think having two brains really helped with that.

DN: For me, it has been like the biggest kind of gift. Filmmaking is such a collaborative process. I don't think one person can make a film this complex by themselves. There's so many contributors to our film, and I feel that sharing the role of a director with Peter, who is such a talented, skilled director and shooter, because we both shoot and direct. I learned so much and I feel I grew so much as a person, and as a director from his way of thinking and handling things. I feel that we just kept each other checked and balanced and sane.

Speaking of handling things, how easy it was for you to even gain access to these communities because I'm imagining that quite a lot of trust had to be established between you and everybody who was participating?

DM: For me, I think the biggest challenge has been, how do you maintain these relationships? How do you nourish them? How do you constantly cultivate them? Pete has been a crucial factor, because these have been very difficult, challenging relationships where, after so many years, people had second thoughts. I found Pete's presence there crucial.. I don't know if I would have been able to handle it if it was just me, reflecting back on it now. Even screening our film for our characters, or talking to them, constantly maintaining this trust, I feel that, as a team, we managed to achieve this.

PM: I think for this type of film, with the dynamics that existed, it was such an asset to have the two of us. Daphne comes with a lot of strength. I'm matching that with what I can do.

Even the shoot itself must have been quite challenging. I imagine dropping in on ranches and conservancies isn't so difficult, but given that the pastoralists are semi-nomadic, that must present challenges.

PM: In a sense, it took five years because things are so unpredictable on the ground. In other shoots, your character would tell you, “This is my plan for the next one month.” And you would look at the character's plan and be like, “Okay, I will go, I will shoot this or not shoot this, it would be easy to plot that out.

DM: Not with the pastoralists.

Especially with pastoralists who were dealing with a drought, because presumably, they were having to move quite a bit because of that?

DM: Yes, and it's their lifestyle, they don't really have Western-style scheduling. So that has been a challenge and these logistical challenges often bring frustration. I would schedule to go and shoot with Simeon or Pete, and then everything would fall through because Simeon would change his plans completely. So it's difficult. We were so glad to be able to help one another, to keep each other sane in situations like that. You can be in the middle of nowhere, thinking that you're going to shoot something, and then it just doesn't happen and that's for years and years.

PM: It takes patience but also understanding this is the way of life and sometimes it's unpredictable for everyone, not just for them. Initially, I remember. I think even the first trip I made, I think I shot almost nothing. It was so unpredictable but that was a really good introduction.

Given how much time you invested, how hard was it to maintain distance and balance, especially as you were trying to keep everyone onside as well as take in the bigger picture?

PM: We can talk about the balance, but in terms of the distance, even to this day, I'm really passionate and really close to the characters. I have a love for them and care for them. But what is important is the balance. We worked really hard as a team. We sometimes had very difficult conversations, fighting for things, and the editor also really contributed, and the wider team. It was a long journey of back and forth. It was basically like walking on a tightrope, you get the right balance.

DM: And I would add to that, I just think making a film like that, talking about building these trust relationships, and, and remaining distant would be a lie. You live with these people and you care for them. You go to a remote place with Simeon and you spend weeks and weeks maybe sleeping in the same car. You become part of the story, and you try to constantly check yourself.

Daphne Matziaraki: 'Our goal is engaging both sides from a peaceful standpoint'

And we tried so hard, like Pete said, to create a balanced, truthful film. That was a promise that we made to our characters and that was why we had this trust with them, because they knew that we were filming with the other side. And that was a constant negotiation and a constant promise that we are going to stay faithful to them all.

What struck me when watching the film is that people are very willing to sort of talk among their own communities about the problem yet there seems to be virtually no discussion between the two communities. Were you surprised by how polarised that situation was?

PM: Especially being Kenyan and having grown up seeing this, it's something that was expected. But what surprised me was, especially in Laikipia, with how acute the problem was getting there, was that nobody from either side was thinking, “Actually, we need to be a bit more innovative”, because you should talk to your enemy if you want to have peace. But it looks like there's this silence that existed. What really attracted me to the project was that this could be a tool to make both communities basically get closer to each other. So that if they watch the film, they can understand the other side, and hopefully it will be a catalyst for them to think, “Maybe we should talk”.

Has your film been shown in Kenya yet? Has it been the catalyst you hoped?

PM: We are planning to have Kenyan screenings, it's still in the works. So we'll find out how successful it will be.

DM: That's as well as an impact campaign using our film to engage in guided, meaningful, moderated conversations, restorative peace circles, and other workshops. Our goal is engaging both sides from a peaceful standpoint.

Peter Murimi on working with Daphne Maztiaraki: 'Daphne comes with a lot of strength. I'm matching that with what I can do' Photo: Courtesy of Sundance Institute

The historical background that you include in this film is vital to clue people in as to how the situation has come about. I imagine that was also a challenge to boil that historical context down into a way that's manageable for people to take in.

DM: That was a huge part and a challenge, to make sure that we got it right. It took us a very long time to nail it down and to create these graphics and to find the right archival material, and to balance it. It's tough, because the majority of the visual archive that exists is from the colonial era and the stories are told from the colonial point of view. So how do you use this in a way that tells the story right. There is one scene where Simeon asks his grandfather about how it was when the colonists came. That's such a vital scene, because oral history is all they have and now Simeon’s grandfather has passed away now so to capture this, for example, was so important. And to use it in combination with the archival and juxtapose the archival with the current situation was such a delicate, surgical process. It took a lot of months.

PM: What is really important, is to draw a connection between what happened during colonialism. And the inequality that is there now? And to make that connection in a concise and precise way was very important for us.